EPISODE 15 - Michelle Baker Jones

“We need therapists who are not afraid to talk about and explore these experiences”

Michelle Baker-Jones

In today’s episode, we spoke to Michelle Baker-Jones, one of the lead guides on the current Imperial College Randomised Control Trial (Psilodep 2) which is comparing the efficacy of Psilocybin with Anti-Depressants for the treatment of depressive disorder. Michelle is personable, thoughtful, and - potentially because of her background as an integrative psychotherapist - seems to have good scope for how psychedelics should be optimally contextualised within holistic and multimodal treatment regimens for clients suffering from depression.

We Discuss;

  • Her Professional Journey into psychedelics through contact with Dr Ben Sessa and Breaking Convention,

  • Her fortuitous meeting with Prof David Nutt and subsequent inclusion as a therapist on 2015 Psilodep 1 trial,

  • Her experiences co-facilitating sessions with James Rucker,

  • The importance of team cohesion int eh Psychedelic Research Centre at Imperial College,

  • Her thoughts on the therapeutic dyad,

  • The risks and opportunities afforded by physical touch between participants and guide,

  • Her thoughts on the optimal frequency of dosage and the limitations of clinical trials in this regard,

  • The importance of the Michael Pollan’s book as a primer for mainstreaming interest in psychedelics,

  • The difference between therapeutic and recreational psychedelic trips,

  • Her training with Bill Richards and Greg Donaldson,

  • her focus on integrational/relational therapy,

  • The importance of strong therapeutic rapport to buffer against potential transferential enactment,

  • The importance of helping participants to be circumspect with regards to decision making in the immediate afterglow of a trip,

  • the Psilodep2 study,

  • Her work in Psychedelic Integration and the need for a nationwide network of such groups,

  • The ACE therapy model,

  • Holotropic breathwork

  • MBJ counselling

  • The Drug Science podcast Episode She featured in,

  • the Tripp network

Michelle Baker-Jones

Intergrative Psychotherapist

Michelle Baker-Jones: Image - MAPS

Michelle Baker-Jones: Image - MAPS

Michelle is an integrative psychotherapeutic counsellor in private practice, based in London. She is also a member of Imperial college’s psychedelic research team. Michelle is a lead guide on the current Imperial College RCT trial which is comparing psilocybin to anti-depressants as a form of treatment for depression. (Psilodep 2)

She also offers individual psychedelic integration for people who are struggling to process psychedelic experiences and co-facilitates a monthly Psychedelic Integration group with Rosalind Watts.

Niall Campbell